Welcome to The Oak Island Compendium’s “MONEY PIT NINE LEVELS OF QUESTIONS INTERVIEW” with James McQuiston. James is an accomplished Oak Island Researcher, Writer, and Theorist that has written ten books about his research and theories regarding the Island. James agreed to talk with the Compendium and has provided one of the most comprehensive written interviews that he’s ever given. And without further ado, here is James:
Q: When was the first time you ever heard of Oak Island? What were your thoughts about it? What motivated you to start researching the island?
A: The famous David MacDonald Reader's Digest article about Oak Island came out in January of 1965. I would have been on the verge of turning 15 (Feb. 2). At the time there were only three network TV channels, and other than Ed Sullivan, Sgt. Preston of the Yukon, and Daniel Boone, I didn't watch much TV, partly because my parents had their own shows they wanted to watch. So, I read a lot. I mostly read Jack London stories, and books like The Count of Monte Cristo and Treasure Island - books about the old, old days and lots of adventures. Both Monte Cristo and Treasure Island featured treasure hidden on an island and I think when the Oak Island story came out, it just seemed to fit immediately into my bailiwick. I kept that issue with my best books for a long time, especially since it seemed it could be real, not just in a book.
It was in my mind, on and off through the years, and the idea of Nova Scotia being so much like Scotland, and yet not too far away always appealed to me as a destination. I actually went to Scotland three times before I ever made it to Nova Scotia. In 2010 my wife and I took a trip to listen to Celtic music and to visit the Antigonish Highland Games, the oldest games outside of Scotland. We play Celtic music at many Highland Games and we'd been to the very authentic Games on the Isle of Skye, Scotland, so it was natural to finally travel to Nova Scotia. The Games and the Nova Scotian style of Celtic Music were beyond measure, and I knew I had finally made the right move.
Oak Island was only slightly on my mind, and I asked at the airport about how to get there and was told it had just been purchased and we'd never get on the island so there was no use even trying. It went back on the back burner.
Then, in 2016, after watching a few episodes on and off, mostly for the big equipment projects, I was in the middle of rewriting a book I wrote on my family's Scottish history and was reminded that my own distant or co-linear cousin, Sir Ian MacDonald MacUisdean, was the premier Knight Baronet of Nova Scotia. I remember sitting there watching the show and thinking "Oak Island, Nova Scotia/Knights Baronet of Nova Scotia." Could they have anything to do with each other?
I sent an email to the Oak Island folks partly hoping they could tell me more about my extended family's title, but also just to make sure they knew about this knighthood. I received an email that they would call me, and Rick Lagina and Paul Troutman would speak to me for about an hour. My wife filmed me on the phone with them, however Rick didn't show up because something came up on the island just at that time. Paul spoke to me for at least an hour and asked many questions, most of which I had no answer to, though I promised I'd look into them.
This initial phone conversation led to hundreds of emails being traded with information in them trying to sort out what connection there might be. Along the way, I came up with reasonable theories on Glooscap, on Henry Sinclair, and even on what might be buried on Oak Island and why. A wonderful person who used to work behind the scenes on the island suggested that I write a book as all of our conversations and historic discoveries were going to get lost to the ether unless they were more solidly recorded.
This resulted in my first book, Oak Island Missing Links., the first of ten books.
In 2017, I was called to the island. I was to give a war room presentation and I happened to be the very last person to present in the old war room as later that same day all items were transferred to the new war room just up the hill but behind a gate to keep traffic out.
The day before the meeting I was sent to meet Doug Crowell at the Centre of Geographic Sciences (COGS), located about halfway across the island heading towards the old Port Royal site. There I found the most incredible library of old Scottish and Nova Scotia history books along with many maps, some one-of-a-kind. Doug was so kind, as he's been every day since, and we delved into the records to add weight to my presentation.
The next day, on the island, I met just about everyone except Dan and Fred Nolan, who was still not on the team yet. Charles took us for a long golf cart ride around the island and then let me take it on my own. When I returned, a Prometheus producer jumped behind the wheel, and we were off again. This time, he took us into the woods (mostly walking) to Sam Ball's foundation. We couldn't get close because they hadn't yet received their permit. But we did see the three stone walls and I actually stood on one of them to have my picture taken. The only places off limits were the Nolan property and lot five, but I saw all the rest, generally speaking, that very first year.
Marty didn't attend the war room meeting but I did chat with him awhile. Rick and Doug were there along with Dave and a couple others. It was a little overwhelming, but I focused on speaking directly to Rick and Doug with my discoveries. That war room was never shown on TV although it lasted about three hours. More questions were asked, and I went back to my research. Rick had asked specifically about any Knights Templar ties and so when I returned home, I sent him a fairly long report and the Q&A emails began once again.
And once again, a massive amount of info began piling up and the Oak Island team suggested a second book which became Oak Island 1632, since that became my target year for the mystery to begin, based on a lot of historical events and some primary sources.
I pride myself in using primary sources. These include privy council minutes, letters, land deeds and even a painting of Nova Scotia scenes from 1634. I'm not so much interested in what later theories have to say as I am in what the actual records have to say.
I wrote this new book and went back up in 2018 to present again in the war room. I didn't know it but a trip was planned to the New Ross foundation site. There we met the owners and the cousin of a man who had found a 1671 knighthood medallion next to the foundation back in the 1970s. The deer flies were biting terribly and, while we walked the location, met the owners and looked down the old well located there. The film footage was too jumbled to use due to people swatting flies away. Still, it was a wonderful visit.
We urged this man to ask his cousin to bring the medallion to the war room but he said, "Well maybe next week." I told him I was leaving Sunday and there'd be no next week.
The next day we held the war room presentation which was shown on April 9, 2019. Our last day was Saturday and at 8:00 am Doug called to say the guy was coming to the war room with the medallion and would be there soon. We scrambled to get ready and when I got there Rick was on the phone with Prometheus pleading with them to bring a camera crew to the island. He was getting nowhere and handed his phone to me. I tried to convince them that this was a big deal but was told the crew had dispersed for the weekend.
The only record of this war room meeting are the photographs my wife and I took, plus the story I told in my next book Oak Island Knights. including the only original photos of the medallion.
The other thing that happened in 2018 is that Rick asked me for a quote to be placed on the wall in the Oak Island Interpretive Centre. I sent it to him after returning home. It read: "Oak Island is not so much a mystery to be solved as it is a chance to experience the unapologetic fascination of youth once again."
It was placed next to a quote from Gilbert Hedden, one of my more favorite Oak Island owners and searchers.
I was asked back in 2019 to talk about my newest book and even newer discoveries. Two particular things happened this year. FIrst, Doug and I had set up a meeting with the archivist of Dalhousie University, an institution I believe has strong ties to Oak Island. In the war room presentation that year, he announced that they had mysteriously canceled, even though we had been emailing them on a regular basis. We never did get a reason why, which leads me to believe we were getting too close.
The second thing to happen was that Rick set up a meeting between a treasure hunter and me. They had interviewed the man the day before and he would not tell them where a shipwreck was located that was "within sight of Oak Island." I think Rick was hoping he'd let something slip to me. He was a colorful old seaman and a joy to talk to, but he wouldn't tell me either. He had been prevented from diving on the wreck again by treasure trove laws and it is still sitting there with a wealth of information on it.
Oddly enough, in the middle of Covid in 2020, this man emailed me with the approximate location. I'm not sure of his motivation other than perhaps he wanted at least one other person to know, just in case. I sat on it for a long time because I didn't want to betray his confidence, but about three months later I told Rick. So, he knows where it is within reason and that it is a ship built around 1600. Among the things recovered were items that tie into my Oak Island theory, but this has never been mentioned on the show, just like the 1671 knighthood medallion.
That year I had pared my presentation down to one hour so a larger percentage of it might get used, since they've only ever run ten minutes or so from very long meetings. Even though the guys had been out in the field all day, at dusk we started a meeting that lasted four hours. Their hunger for my research was so great that we went for four hours straight, no breaks.
Again, only a small part was shown and overall, the vast majority of what I have provided to them lies on the cutting room floor somewhere.
Things went south in 2020 due to Covid although I did do a Zoom meeting that year which made the show.
In 2021, with Covid regulations in full swing in Nova Scotia, I was able to sneak up there and gave two war room presentations, neither of which has ever seen the light of day. Overall, I've been in six war room meetings with only two of them making the show, plus a couple of Zoom meetings snippets being shown.
In 2021, I also had the amazing and wonderful experience of visiting Rick's home for three hours one evening. He was very candid, telling me things he knew I'd never pass on. He's been an amazing if distant friend, and Doug as well. He asked me earlier this year if I would come up again if he could arrange it. Of course, I said nothing could stop me from being there. But it never materialized.
I've heard from Rick by phone several times, the last being in the beginning of 2023. But no new plans have been made. Other than occasional emails from Doug, and usually a year end email from Rick, it has been somewhat radio silence. I think there is a tug of war between those who want to just dig in the dirt and those who want to look at historical research. Where that contest stands at the moment, I am not aware. But obviously, I'd be there in a heartbeat if the opportunity arose.
Q: After visiting the island so many times, tell us about the lay of the land? Did anything strike you as strange or odd about it when you were there? Is it what you expected?
A: The island is mostly flat with the money pit drumlin near Smith's Cove. It is actually a short walk from the pit to the cove beach, but it often doesn't look that way on the show. The first year there were lots of old rusted piles of equipment from past searchers. I was able to see 10X and lots of other things. After that year, things really tightened up, although Charles has taken me on a golf cart or four-wheeler trip every year to some sight. In 2021, I saw where the Mi'kmaq artifacts were found and how large the Oak Island team dig really was. But by the time it made TV, it was all covered up. In 2019, I saw Nolan's Cross.
There was a great pall over the island in 2021 and I attributed it to Covid but turns out it was the shutdown. People were upset, Marty and Craig had left for Michigan, and not knowing the future of the dig was weighing on people, including Rick.
I would say, generally speaking, Oak Island is exactly what you'd expect a treasure island to look like. I never felt anything spooky and would love the chance to stay overnight, as long as some big bodyguard was there too. LOL.
Q: We understand you have had six “live” war room appearances. Which of these was the most memorable and why? What was it like being surrounded by the Oak Island team and talking with them?
A: Well, snippets of me have appeared on a dozen or so shows, but actual war room footage was just from 2018 and 2019. There was some Zoom footage used as well. I'd have to say the 2018 presentation was the most memorable especially since Rick had some very kind words to say to the camera afterwards.
The team members are pretty much like you see them on the show. I learned a few secrets and was surprised that various people took me into their confidence, but then each year I sign an NDA with a $10,000 penalty attached. Honestly, if I said all that I know, I would probably get sued, NDA or no NDA. It wouldn't change the overall story that much so it's better to honor their confidence.
The camera team was interesting because if you focused on them, it could get intimidating, but they were so good, they seemed to melt into the background every time.
I have nothing but good to say about the Oak Island team, the Prometheus team, the camera crew, and the support people. I have been blessed and I know it.
Q: You were made a Fellow with the Society of Antiquaries of Scotland. Could you explain more about this organization and what they do? Could you tell us the process of becoming a member? Did your work on your own genealogy help you to qualify? Tell us about your genealogy?
A: In 2014, after working with two members of the Society of Antiquaries in creating an organization and a depository surrounding a certain event in Scotland, they entered my name as a fellow. I submitted several pieces of writing and research and answered many questions. Late in that year new fellowships were voted on and I made it in. This organization has been around since 1780. The people there have been great and have either answered my questions or led me to another historical institution that could. I have uncovered some amazing hidden history and primary source material that had been "lost" or put away fairly deeply in the archives until I rattled cages.
My fellowship has opened doors at the National Museum of Scotland, the National Records of Scotland, the British Museum, the National Archives of the United Kingdom, and many other places from Sweden to Australia to Nova Scotia.
My personal genealogy is principally Scottish in origin, and I wrote a family history book that delved deeply into the historical events we participated in from Scotland to Ireland to Colonial America. In addition, I've written nine other books unrelated to Oak Island but having some Scottish or Irish twist to them, for a total of twenty "hidden history" books.
Q. In your book, “Oak Island Knights”, there’s the famous picture of the Knights of the Garter medallion on the cover. Can you tell us about this medal and how it was discovered? Who do you believe dropped it and how it got to Nova Scotia? Do you believe there was some sort of structure at New Ross and what exactly do you think it was and how it tied to Oak Island?
A: The medallion is the same one brought to the war room in 2018. I propose that it first belonged to Christopher Monck, financier of William Phipps in the recovery of the Concepcion shipwreck. By the time Phipps returned to England with a fortune large enough to literally save the country, Monck had resigned all his honors and I believe his medallion was given to William Phipps when he was knighted as Sir William Phipps. The story is considerable in length and somewhat complex, but there is a lot of proof of this and of another treasure I believe may have been partially buried on Oak Island which led Phipps to that part of the province in search of it.
The medallion had a slightly smashed look in one area, too much for it to have been trampled on, but about what you might expect if it was hanging around someone's neck during a battle and was hit with a club. I believe it fell off during an altercation at the New Ross foundation and laid just inches under the dirt for the next couple hundred of years. Phipps was known to be in that area searching for treasure.
I strongly believe that the structure at New Ross was a secret estate built by and for William Alexander, proprietor of Nova Scotia, in 1623. I think it was a beachhead of sorts to spy on the French at Port Royal and my treasure hunting sea captain friend suggested that Port Royal was attacked overland from New Ross, not by sailing up the bay of Fundy like sitting ducks. It makes sense to me.
Another friend from Nova Scotia has done much hiking in that general area and found stone roads and walls similar to those on Oak Island. I think the story is much bigger than Oak Island but revolves around it.
One thing I discovered is that the cross arm of Nolan's Cross points directly to the New Ross foundation. The discovery was verified by Oak Island theorist Brain Pharoah, by Steve Guptil and the owners of the foundation, and by GIS expert Erin Helton.
I also realized that Oak Island, New Ross and Port Royal all lie just under the 45th parallel of latitude, which was the northern extreme of William Alexander's grant, although he claimed to own all of Nova Scotia and much more. This leads me to believe Nolan's Cross was a landmark for a much larger area of Nova Scotia than just Oak Island.
I wrote the book Oak Island and New Ross revealing all my discoveries, though none of this ever made the TV show. Carmen Legge helped and said it was the best book ever written about New Ross and that it would shock a lot of people. Many people actually helped with this book and yet, other than in that book, the amazing discoveries have never seen the light of day elsewhere.
Q. You and your wife, Beth, are part of a musical duo known as “Celtic Creek”. Can you tell us about it and what instruments you play? Do you both still play together? Tell us about your experiences performing?
A: I grew up from birth on Scottish-Irish music. My whole family played and that is where I learned with the old "wax on, wax off" method - a long study of guitar and piano playing stretching throughout my youth and teenage years. At 15, I began "playing out" with rock bands which lasted until I turned 50. At that point I joined a Celtic band which reminded me of my youth. In 2004, I talked my wife into dusting off her old high school flute and we have played out as Celtic Creek ever since. We also drifted into some older easy listening music as Drunken Sailors.
You can hear some of our Celtic music at celticcreek.com by clicking on the CD covers near the bottom of the opening page. There is one selection from each CD.
We play many community events, Highland Games, wineries, beach bars, etc. and I have personally played for 57 years at many thousands of performances. It's still fun though my back doesn't like hauling equipment anymore. How long I can sustain it, I don't know. This is a busy time - a double job two weekends ago, another double last weekend, and a triple jobs weekend coming up next week, the vast majority of it being Celtic.
We lost so many great musicians this year from Gordon Lightfoot to Robbie Robinson to Jimmy Buffett, all favorites of mine. Paul McCartney once asked WIllie Nelson when he was going to retire, and he answered, "Retire from what?" I guess that would be my answer too, at least for now.
Q: We understand you had the opportunity of meeting Ken Burns, the famous director, many years ago. Tell us about that experience? What did you talk about, and did it leave an impression on you afterwards?
A: We were playing a Celtic Music event and the boss lady asked if we knew any Civil War music. I said we knew a few songs popular back then but not any true Civil War tunes. She said, well you will by next weekend because you're going to be performing for Ken Burns. He was going to be in town to speak on his Civil War trilogy, one of the most watched documentaries in history. I said, "On one condition; I get to speak with him.
So, we scrambled all week to put together a two hour show. Halfway through we took a break, and the boss came up and said, "Well, you wanted to talk to him. He's sitting right there waiting."
I am amazed at how nice famous people can be and Ken was no exception. In fact, he may have created the mould for niceness. We talked for 15 minutes about documentary ideas and a week later we received a letter from him saying how much he enjoyed our music. I've sent him a few of my books and he always writes a letter back thanking me.
The bulk of our conversation was about Andrew Jackson. I have some proprietary information on him which I've shared with top Jackson biographers, who ate it up. I would like to someday write a book about Jackson and his nemesis John C. Calhoun. I am related to Jackson. My wife is related to Calhoun, and she has proprietary information on him as well. Jackson was much misunderstood and maligned, and I would like to help set the record straight. But there is only so much time in life and it's been pretty busy lately.
I'm now creating a YouTube video podcast with a fellow researcher called Oak Island Plus. It is taking up a lot of time as we are doing all the editing ourselves, learning along the way. Also, I am preparing for a major presentation to 50 Masonic historians at a Research Lodge this coming November. I have to get this one right!!
Q. In your latest book, Oak Island: A Masonic Conspiracy, you mention the theory of Mary, Queen of Scots having used code similar to what was on the H-O Stone that was found at Joudrey’s Cove on Oak Island? Can you explain this in more detail? Do you believe she was involved with Oak Island?
A: I rediscovered a cipher written by Mary, Queen of Scots that had been put away deeply at the National Archives of the UK. However, I went through many other institutions before finding it. It was a three month process of gaining the world's first and largest collection of her cipher code sheets (104 in all). I paid to have them sorted out from the balance of her papers and scanned in for me. Once I had them, it took another couple of months to match up the symbols on the 90' Stone to her ciphers. All but a couple symbols matched, one of the non-matching ones being the symbol for Master Mason which appears on the 90' Stone three times.
I first wrote the book Oak Island Curses, Codes and Secret Societies revealing my discoveries. That was my eighth Oak Island book, I believe. I elaborated on the cipher in my Oak Island: A Masonic Conspiracy book, my latest and most likely my last.
It is tough to write a book, to make sure facts and dates are correct, to have it proofread by two or three people, and to publish it. I figure if I haven't proven my theory by now (which, by the way, was the second-place theory as last year's TV season began) writing more words about it probably won't help. Instead, our video podcast Oak Island Plus addresses one subject at a time, in depth.
I don't believe Mary, Queen of Scots was personally involved with Oak Island, but a family who had her ciphers was. Again, it's detailed, but one of the names found on the stone using her cipher is of the man whose grandfather was executed for hiding the ciphers. I think the stone was not directions on how to dig up the money pit but rather a prayer stone/boundary marker left behind for posterity. I also noticed that the HO stone would also fit this idea and her ciphers.
Q: You have authored ten books. Is there one you can say is your favorite? What was your motivation for writing the first book? Do you have any plans for any more books? Where can people buy your books?
A: All of my books are on Amazon and I have a website at www.oakislandgold.com that talks about each book and provides a link to it. I think I'm done with that phase. The first two Oak Island books were suggested by the Oak Island team. After that, I just couldn't let my major discoveries go unpublished. It would be hard to pick a favorite. They all stand on their own. Oak Island and New Ross is a good one and Oak Island: A Masonic Conspiracy is as well, but I wouldn't want to slight any of them. They each present the same theory just from a different historical angle. Many people have purchased all ten of them.”
Q: Do you believe that whatever was hypothetically buried on Oak Island is still there? What do you believe was buried there? Do you feel it was just that deposit, or do you feel there were others by different people through time?
A: I believe in one single deposit made in the spring and summer of 1632, which may have included part of a vast missing stolen treasure from Scotland, along with other valuables taken to Nova Scotia to create a colony there.
I believe that a good portion of the treasure was possibly recovered and laundered by creating a bank. I have identified many people and families who had a vested interest in this treasure and a historic connection to Oak Island. While they had past connections to the Knights Templar, I don't believe Templars were directly involved but I believe I've shown how Templar related families became the first Freemasons, and pre-Freemasons are the people I feel were behind the burial, thus the Master Mason symbol appearing three times on the 90' Stone.
Q: If you could identify one thing that has been your biggest obstacle in researching Oak Island, what is it? What about it that makes it so difficult? Have you ever contemplated stopping your Oak Island research?
A: Getting the news out. I have piles and piles of evidence and connections that seem beyond any chance of being coincidence. I am slowly getting it out through my books (which have limited sales compared to The Curse of Oak Island viewership), my new video podcast, and talks to Freemason Lodges and at other locations. Being on The Curse of Oak Island certainly helped, but again they only used a very, very small part of my theory and proof, probably due to time constraints and the need to keep it simple for the viewing public.
I have "islanditis" and there aren't enough cowbells in the world to cure it. I love this period in history. I love putting the puzzle together. I love all the great people I have met along the way. Like Willie (Nelson) said, "Retire from what?"
Q: Are you still involved with the island? Do you speak with Rick Lagina and other members of the team? Do you provide them with any sort of consultation regarding research? What can fans expect from your website, www.oakislandgold.com . Do you update it periodically?
A: I need to do more updating, but the information just keeps coming in and the video podcast is taking up a lot of time. The firehose is still turned on and although I am no longer thirsty, I am being forced to drink from it by some unseen hand.
I have sent the OI team a thousand or more emails. As of late, I have hit the brakes mostly from lack of time. Both Rick and the Prometheus team have encouraged my emails and swear they all get read. Understanding their focus and expectations has been a struggle at times.
Rick usually calls out of the blue at least once a year and sends a year-end Holiday email. Doug also sends me info out of the blue. As for carrying on steady communication, that doesn't happen. But they certainly have given me a fair shot, and I hope it isn't over. Ya just never know, ya know!
Q: Along with Scotland, we see you have a strong affinity with your Celtic background. Tell us about your website, Celtic Life International? Do you believe that there was any possible Celtic involvement with Oak Island at some point in the past?
A: My website was actually called Celtic Guide and it still exists in archives. I had writers from all over the Celtic world providing articles and had several Celtic musicians provide music. It can still be accessed at www.celticguide.com , but hasn't been updated for a long time.
Celtic Life International did an interview with me and that is how my name became connected with them. They are out of Nova Scotia.
I have created a number of sites and written a number of books and it may seem like I have attention deficit disorder, but the truth is there is just so much coming my way on a daily basis I can barely keep up with it. I try to get it out to the world in the best way I can. Other than book sales, there is no money in this, and even book sales only provide a minor royalty. This is truly a labor of love.
I've hesitated asking for any donations or crowd funding and have footed the bill for thousands of dollars worth of research and print and video production. Travel, research purchases such as the Mary, Queen of Scots ciphers and others, publishing costs, etc. all add up, but if I didn't love it, I wouldn't do it.”
The Oak Island Compendium would like to thank James for participating in our interview and providing such detailed and thorough answers. Please visit our suggested reading area for links to some of James’ books. You can access all of his books on Amazon, where they can be purchased. We hope you enjoyed our interview and watch out for a few surprises, coming soon.
Good day from the Compendium!
